SubscribeGlug, Glug, Glug… [Sound of Orange Oil] … Aaaaaargh! … [Sound of Termites Dying]
January 23, 2008
Fellow 3 Oceans contributor and South Bay Keller Williams Realtor Bart Marchioni forwarded me a rather entertaining newsletter from National Building Inspectors. “Entertaining” and “Building Inspectors” aren’t normally found together…but — perhaps due to my macabre sense of humor — I couldn’t help laughing at this imagery…
Imagine a colony of termites infesting your home <nibble nibble nibble>. Now imagine pouring orange juice on them. <glug glug glug>. Termites start drinking <slurp slurp slurp>. Termites start dying. <aaaaaaargh! aaaaaargh! aaaaaargh!>
Here’s what it might look like:
Ok, actually, the orange substance isn’t orange juice, but rather orange oil, or Limolene, a “terpene hydrocarbon colorless liquid with an extremely strong smell of oranges.”
And NBI is a reputable firm, so no, they wouldn’t recommend dousing your home with OJ in hopes of killing your termite housemates.
According to the NBI newsletter, they’ve been asked by many people about whether orange oil is effective at killing termites. A summary of their opinion:
- Yes, termites will be killed on contact by orange oil. (Of course, they would also be killed on contact with my foot!) Getting termites to come in contact with said orange oil, however, would be nigh impossible in the hidden wooden structures of the home — ie. in the vast majority of where you would find termites. A handy little diagram from NBI:
- Yes, orange oil will “defy gravity” — ie soak in all directions, including upwards — but, for that matter, so does water. The key problem is that orange oil apparently biodegrades after only 4 days.
The personal opinion of the newsletter’s author is that NBI “would never certify a home as being ‘free and clear’ of a drywood infestation that was treated with orange oil.”
Disclaimer: I am not a termite inspector. More importantly, I am not your termite inspector. If you have termite issues, or questions about termites, please ask your friendly professional termite inspector. Above all, do not pour orange juice over your home in an attempt to kill your termite housemates. ‘Nuff said.
Comments
33 Responses to “Glug, Glug, Glug… [Sound of Orange Oil] … Aaaaaargh! … [Sound of Termites Dying]”
Got something to say?
Kevin;
Great drawings and diagrams.
I am also suspicious about the true benefit of treatment with orange oil. I would save have your house fumiagted about every 15 years or so and everything should be fine. Termite nibble very slowly.
Arn
Arn, you’re probably the first person EVER to compliment me on my drawing…my artistic skills peaked in 3rd grade!
Termites are indeed a fact of life here in northern California. One of the pest inspectors I use regularly likes to say, “There are two types of homes in northern California: Those that have termites, and those that will have termites.”
Kevin,
Orange oil works, but Napalm not only works, but throws off a wonderful small in the morning.
On average less then 1/2 percent of a home is infested with drywood termites, then WHY DO WE POISON 100% OF THE HOME WITH FUMIGATION?
With true optics we can find headen areas of infestation and kill the colonys and eggs of drywood termites. Sense orange oil
I was not going to respond untill i noticed that Mr Folkins left a comment. Mr Folkin is the producer and distribtutor of Orange Oil and needs to defend his worrthless product. However, it is funny that Mr boer a Real Estate Broker has enough common sense to see the shortcomings of a local treatment with anything.
Here is a link (http://www.merchantcircle.com/blogs/The.Termite.Guy.949-940-1010/2008/1/Is-Orange-Oil-Good-For-Orange-County-by-Alex-Del-Toro/58586) to a article that was published in the Orange County Association of Realtors newsletter.
Bravo Kevin, being able to see thru the maze of marketing makes you an better Realtor.
Hi Michael,
Thanks for dropping by. I’m by no means a termite expert. Your point that “less 1/2 percent of a home is infested with drywood termites, why do we poison 100% of the home?” makes sense.
However…unless you have X-ray vision how can you see where that 1/2 of one percent is? I still don’t get it.
Boy wouldn’t that be a perfect life if all homes maintained a 1/2 percent infestation quota. The fact is that I have inspected over 30,000 homes in the last 18 years and it is all over the board from 0% to 40%. I have also completed over 45 remodels and every time we do are initial demo we find termite infestations that I would of never of found during an inspection. I think it is irresponsible to throw a 1/2% number around, because we all now this can never be verified and that all homes are different.
[...] Oil] … [Sound of Termites Dying] Published in March 14th, 2008 Posted by Pest Control in Pests gpest2 wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptYes, termites will be killed on [...]
you can kill close to 100% of drywood termites by many methods including, other chemical treatments, detecting and removing infestations, etc. It depends how much time one will spend there and what kind of other measures will take which may indluce opening walls, etc etc. The problem is not as much as what method to use as how professional and efficient to do inspections by using many methods other than jjust finding droppings. And yes, any remotely professional temite inspector and applicator should be able to at least suspect infestation to the above are and be able to either treat directly or do preventitive measures no matter it’s fumigated or not, Bcs even if you fimugate in the long run termites will re-establish themselves in couple of years.
//// from 0% to 40%. I have also completed over 45 remodels and every time we do are initial demo we find termite infestations that I would of never of found during an inspection. /////
Most of these infestations are old. Just bcs you see droppings and damage it desn’t mean there is an active infestation
/////// However…unless you have X-ray vision how can you see where that 1/2 of one percent is? I still don’t get it. ////////////////
You can’t see. unless the entire home is X-rayed, and moving LIVE drywood termites are detected, you are completely correct.
this doesn’t necessarily mean that in many cases all the wood in structures can be treated by Orange Oil and other means.
You can treat every single wood in house, by injection of wood members from outside by most termiticides, the reason only Orange Oil is good in this case is that the risidue is practically harmless while say if we do it with dragnet and shoot 200 gallons of dragent to all wood memberrs in house, it might not be livible, at least for a month or so, and probably forever due to chemical risidue in wood that will come out all the time.
to treat close to all wood members in an average house by orange oil will require 200-300 gallons of it and at least 5-10 days work. the price – minimum $10,000.00 while the same house can be fumed for probably $1,500.00.
However there is always a tradeoff, that’s when the professionalism is coming to place, and that’s how Orange Oil become so popular , not bcs it smells like and Orange and people like it. Even though, yes it’s easy to sell, and many people who would never fumigate at least did Orange Oil and their houses are in better state than otherwise. Many people got sold on cheap Orange Oil and didn’t even remotely solve their problem, while they would have fumigated otherwise and be in much better state. So, this issue is not as simple as it seems.
This doesn’t mean however that in m
Glad to see discusion about what I think is the biggest consumer rip off in our industry I have ever seen. I realy love the idea that inspectors are putting scopes in the walls to find termites . Exterior walls are filled with insulation and have a block of wood called a fire block thruogh the middle off the wall .Inspectors would need to scope walls top bottom interior and exterior every 16 inches just to get a partial view. I dont think this is happening. It seems to me that these companies are charging so much that they can afford the call backs . In most cases it would be easy for me to treat a house with any product and convince a homeowner that they dont have any termites because in most cases the homewners aren’t aware that they have a significant termite problem.I also havent come across companies that are willing to sign off on properties being sold thruogh escrow tranactions that have signifacant termite infestation.I wish it worked the way it is advertised but I dont believe it does so I dont use it because I value my customers and my sleep
The folks marketing orange oil are marketers not termite professionals. Orange oils works about as well as wd40. It will kill termites, if you put the product in direct contact with the termite. It is not a whole structure treatment. It is not orange juice, it is a distilled product from the orange rind. It kills fish, it is a volatile organic compound, it has a chemical orange oder which can be irritable to people who are “chemically sensitive”. It definitely is not magic and by far not the best product on the market. But there are those that will gladly sell you there service for thousands of dollars (a complete ripoff). The advertisers that make all the outrageous claims about orange oil have no imperical scientific data on the efficacy of d-limonene (orange oil). Marketing works.
Regarding the gas used to fumigate homes Vikane Gas (Sulfuryl Fluoride)
Sunday, January 25, 2009
M. Sulbaek Andersen:
Sulfuryl fluoride, a termite insecticide, is 4,000 times more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, with long life in the atmosphere
Termite insecticide a potent greenhouse gas
January 21st, 2009
Mads Sulbaek Andersen with Pyrex chamber
(PhysOrg.com) — An insecticide used to fumigate termite-infested buildings is a strong greenhouse gas that lives in the atmosphere nearly 10 times longer than previously thought, UC Irvine research has found.
Sulfuryl fluoride, UCI chemists discovered, stays in the atmosphere at least 30-40 years and perhaps as long as 100 years. Prior studies estimated its atmospheric lifetime at as low as five years, grossly underestimating the global warming potential.
The fact that sulfuryl fluoride exists for decades — coupled with evidence that levels have nearly doubled in the last six years — concerns study authors Mads Sulbaek Andersen, Donald Blake and Nobel Laureate F. Sherwood Rowland, who discovered that chlorofluorocarbons in aerosol cans and other products damage the ozone layer. That finding led to a worldwide ban on CFCs.
“Sulfuryl fluoride has a long enough lifetime in the atmosphere that we cannot just close our eyes,” said Sulbaek Andersen, a postdoctoral researcher in the Rowland-Blake laboratory and lead author of the study. “The level in the atmosphere is rising fast, and it doesn’t seem to disappear very quickly.”
This study will appear online Jan. 21 in the journal Environmental Science and Technology.
Kilogram for kilogram, sulfuryl fluoride is about 4,000 times more efficient than carbon dioxide at trapping heat, though much less of it exists in the atmosphere.
Its climate impact in California each year equals that of carbon dioxide emitted from about 1 million vehicles. About 60% of the world’s sulfuryl fluoride use occurs in California.
Sulfuryl fluoride blocks a wavelength of heat that otherwise could easily escape the Earth, the scientists said. Carbon dioxide blocks a different wavelength, trapping heat near the surface.
“The only place where the planet is able to emit heat that escapes the atmosphere is in the region that sulfuryl fluoride blocks,” said Blake, chemistry professor. “If we put something with this blocking effect in that area, then we’re in trouble — and we are putting something in there.”
The chemists worry that emissions will increase as new uses are found for sulfuryl fluoride — especially given the ban of methyl bromide, an ozone-depleting pesticide regulated under the Montreal Protocol. Sulfuryl fluoride emissions are not regulated, though officials do consider it a toxic contaminant.
The insecticide is pumped into a tent that covers a termite-infested structure. When the tent is removed, the compound escapes into the atmosphere. Sulbaek Andersen, Blake and Rowland believe a suitable replacement should be found, one with less global warming potential.
To measure sulfuryl fluoride’s atmospheric lifetime, the chemists put it inside a Pyrex chamber with compounds that are well understood in the atmosphere, such as ethane. They shined lamps on the chamber to simulate sunlight, which caused chemical reactions that eliminated the compounds from the air.
By monitoring sulfuryl fluoride changes compared with changes to the well-known compounds, they were able to estimate its atmospheric lifetime.
“This is a cautionary paper,” said Rowland, Donald Bren Research Professor of Chemistry and Earth System Science. “It tells us that we need to be thinking globally — and acting locally.”
Source: University of California – Irvine
Link to article: http://www.physorg.com/news151764839.html
Posted by Cassandra_Moderna at 2:04 PM
Labels: Sulfuryl fluoride
In Southern California we have had great success in killing termites with Orange Oil. With the right training application, Orange Oil boasts a really high success rate in controlling and killing termites. Most often when Orange Oil doesn’t eliminate the termite problem it has to do with mistakes and poor application techniques on the part of the service technician rather than the Orange Oil itself. (www.dialusttermite.com)
As far as Orange Oil termite control goes, In Southern California we have had great success in killing termites with Orange Oil. With the right training application, Orange Oil boasts a really high success rate in controlling and killing termites. Most often when Orange Oil doesn’t eliminate the termite problem it has to do with mistakes and poor application techniques on the part of the service technician rather than the Orange Oil itself. <A HREF= http://www.dialustermite.net/
“With the right training and application” seems to be key phrase, but none of the orange oil companies ever say what exactly the right application is, so the the whole thing boils down to “trust us, we’re the experts”. (And fork over your money.) There is no such ambiguity with legitimate fumigation companies; they’ll tell you exactly what they’re doing, what they’re using, and how much. (But don’t get me started on termite inspectors!)
The idea of a low-toxicity termite treatment is appealing, but until there is a little more transparency in the industry, I’m afraid that “Orange Oil = Snake Oil” as far as I’m concerned.
My solution has been to fumigate about once a decade, when we see pellets, and deal directly with the fumigation companies; you don’t need an inspector unless you’re selling and you’ll save a couple thousand that way.
Planet Orange is run by three owners, one who was a pilot (not an experienced inspector, another who was a chef (not an experienced inspector), and another head hauncho who is not even a licensed termite inspector and should not be talking to customers about termites which requires a license. Take it from a professional and call a professional, dont be fooled by good marketing. Mike Faulkins works for XT2000. If you really want to treat your home with Orange Oil… Buy it on-line, $110.00 a gallon. Dont pay inexperienced inspectors and applicators $2400 to $3600 to pretend to treat your home.
I mean come on man….buy it on-line. Should this even be a discussion, water will kill drywood termites, but you have to get to where the termites live to kill them. And they say that the orange oil wicks through the wood but its not going to make 12 turns, go into the sub area, go int the attic, and eliminate swarmers flying in the attic from reinfesting. Fumigate!!!!
Thanks for the opinions for and against, but just to say “Fumigate!!!!” is a real ignorant way of going at things and not taking into consideration WHY people are looking for an alternative.
My case, I have a son that is highly allergic to many items, fortunately not orange or derivatives of. Just to Fumigate without educating ourselves and searching for alternatives could be disastrous for us. We can’t afford to move, so what can we do? Get educated. Does this “snake” oil work? I’m not sure, maybe finding people that have had the service done and see what they say will sway me one way or the other. I’ll also ask for a warranty for at-least a year or more, which I’ve already been told by one company that that’s not a problem. If this alternative does work I’m sure that I can find that info online. Fortunately, I live in SoCal where a few people say it is working so far.
Fumigators are “haters”…they hate orange oil, they hate that they are losing business to orange oil, they hate that the consumer demands a real alternative, they hate by spewing all of the lies about orange oil. Here’s a question for the haters: XT-2000 Orange Oil has been used for over a decade, on hundreds of thousands of structures…if it didn’t work it wouldn’t still be around and in such BIG DEMAND… Haters! Did you ever hear this one: If you can’t beat ‘em join ‘em?
if I removed all of my wall panels and left only the outside,studds, and insulation and pulled a jihad( aka Bug bomb) would that wipe out the pest that nibbles on my wall?
they are only in my living room but I am redoing a lot of stuff and found the house mates chillin in my walls
First thing, the .edu sties are the best sources for info on termites. In SoCal, they live in the walls, in NorCal, they live in the rafters (drywall). The subter termites can be handled with a good foundation spray, like you should do anyway to kill blackwidows and the like. If you know where they are, kill them with one of the spray bombs with the needle applicators. Drill holes at regular intervals, stuff in the needle and let loose. Send the kids and pets to the park and let things dry. To protect the rafters, fill the garden sprayer with a borate solution and give em a good soaking. Google on borate to see what it can and cannot do.
Fumigation is the best if you have a big infestation. Kill em all. Not an inspector or a pro, just a person that has done all of the above. Tried to be a good planet steward, but more than that, worry about the kids and pets. Now I look at it as an ounce or prevention is the way to go.
Paul
[...] http://3oceansrealestate.com/blog/does-orange-oil-really-kill-termites.html [...]
Now I’m really confused.
We have noticed three spots in tow rooms where we see droppings and holes drilled in the floor and walls by termites. I hoped it would be good enough to treat these areas locally with Orange Oil treatments but now after reading all the comments I’m not sure what to do!! We live near in San Mateo in Northern CA.
HELP,
I don’t know who to call, a traditional termite company or an Orange company….
One think I don’t understand about Orange Oil vs. Fumigation is the dabate of which one is better and which one should “win”.
First of all neither fumigation can do what Orange Oil does, nor Orange OIl can do what fumigation does. Fumigation will not be able to control in a sufficient degree drywood Termite infestation without these highly toxic chemicals. Using other organic methods, including Orange Oil may or may not do that. The whole point in termite control is inspecting the houses constantly and doing good and proper treatments.
Also, many times it depends on what is the quality of work as opposed to what type of work was done.
In addition to this while it’s a common sense that no matter how severe and widespread is drywood termite infestation, especially in inaccessile areas, fumigation if done properly will kill them all. Orange Oil will most likely not.
However, if there is a house and most wood members get checked by also using poper inspection tools and Orange Oil, heat or other organic methods are applied, the even if some termites may be left, that house still can receive a good termite control without going thru all the hassles of fumigation and toxins related with it.
It was decades when asbestos was legal after they found out what it can do to people. We don’t know completely what is the impact of Vikane or Sulfar florade to human health, to those fumigators, crew, neighbors and homeowners who return to home after airation.
Also, I posted a blog about this at the link below.
http://primetermite.blogspot.com/
as to Susanne’s question, if drywood termites could drill the drywall on 3 sopts it means they have drilled similar holes in many other areas which happen not to be towards to the drywall. Complete treatment is needed. You can read this article about chosing treatments.
http://primetermite.com/termites.html
WD 40 will kill bugs on contact, when you rumn out of Raid at home why do you grab Windex? The writer of this article is spot on. Tent Fumigation BTW is the Best and it 99.9 percent sub-contracted out and you can get Big name Company or a small outfit but the Tent Fumigation is only a s good a the sub-contrantor.
The Termite Man
WD 40 will kill bugs on contact, when you run out of Raid at home why do you grab Windex? The writer of this article is spot on. Tent Fumigation BTW is the Best and it 99.9 percent sub-contracted out and you can get Big name Company or a small outfit but the Tent Fumigation is only as good as the sub-contractor. BTW the Baiting Program ….. the bait is wood…..?? Why attract them… Prevention is always better, be pro-active not re-active – use a non repellant Like Termidor. Do your homework there is always another way – but what is the best way? Also get bids ask for referrals.
Another Way
yes fumigations are as good as the one who does it, but, to achieve close to 100% it is already proven that fumigant concentration devices need to be placed in different areas. This is similar to heat treatment when thermometer is placed in different areas. I do not know about any fumigator who does it. However, I know as a fact that one of the “biggest” and “oldest” companies clearly advises its inspectors to put areas where kick holes of drywood termites were found to direct the fan on that direction, and no they don’t subcontract. This means they know that unless you spend twice much time at home for fumigation, $20-$100 more in gas, have a better trained crew, you are not going to do even a remotely quality job.
I know another fact which happens with us all the time, and because of which we keep losing customers due to them not realizing a simple thing thaf so called “good prices for fumigations” has become a huge area of deception, and many customer contribute to it without knowing. This relates to getting the “middle quote” too . We are not building decks or patios when someone pays after seeing what is done. There is no way to find out if fumigation got rid of all the termites, so having the “meddle quote” or “getting as many quotes as possible” makes no sense. However, seeing company review, their call-back rate, warranties, how professional they are, makes some sense. I have never understood how people schedule fumigations with “termite inspectors” who come and just write a “quote” at the back of their business card. Yes, it is controlled by the state, but state cannot control warranties and quality of fumigation. We – termite companies are not obliged to offer any warranty at all, we chose to. Prime Termite offers wood damage for entire structure warranty, but it’s our choice, not bcs we are obligated to.
Let’s say a salesman of a termite company subcontracts the fume. He can chose any fumigator he wants. Now that salesman goes and finds out a house which is 60,000 cubic feet. If he or his company were to pay the fumigator for 60,000 cubic feet, then the price would be $3,600 or so ($60 per cubic feet – industry standard). Another termite salesman comes and says it is only 45,000 cubic feet and is able to give a “lower quote”, something he knows other “salesmen will do too”. This is because if the termite salesman who gave a “lower quote” will see that the sub fumigator will charge them more by double-checking the cubic footage if they can bcs I have seen many fumigation “professionals” who do not know how to properly check the cubic footage neither, then he is not going to give anymore jobs to that fumigator. The salesman cannot sell lots of jobs and get paid on commission if he is not “underestimating”. And the company is fine with that since usually termite companies do not give a decent warranty.
This is why, even though it is as good as the fumigator is, however they are dependent on prime contractors. Again, the reason is that customers think just bcs you put a tent on a house, then all their problems will be fixed bcs they saw many other houses in neighborhood which had a tent. They didn’t see other houses or it was not that easy to notice where no tent was on, but other treatments were done by a crew by only parking their cars.
Bottom line – as I said before most fumigations become either localized treatments for those reasons or limited treatments. Wherever they forward the fan that’s the only areas that get treated properly. People, just don’t know these details, and if I were not a termite pro, it would be difficult for me to know all these “industry secrets” right at the beginning too.
Also using only Vikane instead of generic alternatives is good, but still – one can blow the Vikane on the air, and the other one can do a good job.
http://www.primetermite.com/traditional%20termite%20treatments.html
I am also confused. I KNOW we have termites. I am not sure if this house has ever been treated! It was built in 1928 and it is made of redwood. In one of the bedrooms, main floor, around the window, in the sill and NOW in the shutter frame, which was only put on 9 years ago, I see MAJOR evidence. The frame can be crushed with my fingers, easily. I see droppings, new ones every day! (not good for a boys room full of toys along that wall!)
I am afraid this back of the house wall will crumble some night while we’re sleeping. I am very disheartened by chemicals being pumped through my whole house, even if these little guys are through my whole house as well. Orange oil seems the way to go, but I want it to work, and I think we need to rip that wall apart and see the REAL damage!
Do you think we should kill the termites sooner than we rip the wall out and remodel, or wait till we remodel? Am I overreacting thinking my house will crumble?
Lastly, does anyone have ANY referrals to good companies in San Mateo County, CA. who I could get to come out and give me solid advice? I know this is expensive and I don’t want to waste $.
Thanks everyone.
hey
From 2007 to 2009 I worked for a company that got into the orange oil treatments. He bought into the Xt-2000 which was not cheap. We only sold orange oil treatments, even when we new that the problem was bigger then orange oil. Of course we made alot more money with the orange oil, that was why we sold it, but the owner new from his 15 years of fumigating, that alot of the homes NEEDED fumigation.
See thats the REAL problem with orange oil. And lets get it right all you proffessionals, its really just one of the many products WE use for spot treatments. WE use Timbor for spot treatments. We can use Termidor. Like I said its one of the tools of the trade. But everyone started using it incorrectly, which I believe is why ORANGE OIL got such a bad rep. Us pros should know when we need to fumigate, and you dont always have to, so orange oil can be good for such homes.
Question. If a home was just fumigated about 4 or 5 years ago,and you come across 2 fresh spots where termites have just entered. Do we need to fume? Maybe. But if not ORANGE OIL is just one of the many products WE use to spot treat.
I have personally treated over 700 homes with orange oil. Most of them probably needed to be fumed, but the $$$$ makes you lie. But the homes that had maybe 4 to 5 spots where I can get to everything, I never heard from them again.
We also know that some people just WILL NOT have toxic gasses pumped through their home. Some people are sick and cannot leave their home. I treated many homes with the sick and elderley that just cant leave. So ya ORANGE OIL was used then. Just another tool of the trade.One person told me once ” I would rather have my house fall to the ground then go through the fumigation process AGAIN”
ORANGE OIL does work if used ONLY when it can get to all infestation. Which is common with Dry wood termites. But like I said the real problem is not the product but the company that is trying to sell you that product. Most of the time you pay for their advertising, to get this new product out there, then their expences get too high, and now they want YOU to pay for their problem. But I think the bottom line is it all comes down to being honest and what the CUSTOMER wants. I have told MANY people they need to fume but alot just wont. So what do you do then? SPOT TREAT.